Minutes:
Councillor Boden thanked Councillor Seaton and Paul Medd for their attendance at today’s meeting.
Members directed their questions to Councillor Seaton in the first instance.
Members asked questions, made comments and received responses as follows;
1. Councillor Boden asked Councillor Seaton what his strategic objectives were when he became Leader and have these been achieved. Councillor Seaton explained his aim was to deliver the objectives set out in the Council’s adopted Business Plan and to improve the quality of life for people living in the local area. He explained that the main achievements include securing millions of pounds of funding from the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority (CPCA), launching the Growing Fenland initiative, driving forward the Wisbech 2020 Vision project, delivering a Planning Advisory (PAS) review, a successful tender process for the management of the Council’s Leisure Centres and continuing to deliver core services with a reduced budget yet ensuring that customer satisfaction rates remain high. Councillor Seaton confirmed that going forward; he intends to work with members to draft next year’s Business Plan and Corporate Budget to enable a seamless transition into the next term of office.
2. Councillor Booth said in relation to the core services, he has received complaints from residents in relation to the time spent on hold whilst calling the Council and asked Councillor Seaton how this could be improved. Councillor Seaton explained that there has been additional pressure on the service due to the introduction of Universal Credit in the District and confirmed that Councillor Mrs Hay is investigating this issue further.
3. Councillor Boden asked if the Contact Centres call waiting times are measured. Councillor Mrs Hay confirmed they were and said these figures can be included in future reports to members. She highlighted that the service has had issues with staffing in recent months which they are hoping will be rectified soon.
4. Councillor Seaton reminded members that the service suffers from seasonal periods where incoming calls are higher than unusual, such as during a new Council Tax year however this should not impact the service customers receive.
5. Councillor Tierney suggested members of the public could be reminded to contact their Local Councillor in the first instance as this would alleviate the pressure on the Contact Centre. Councillor Seaton agreed to consider this.
6. Councillor Boden asked officers to provide further information to members in relation to the Contact Centre’s call statistics.
7. Councillor Booth asked if the processing of phone enquiries could be refined. At the moment, all calls go through to the Contact Centre and it would be useful if there was a system that directed callers to the relevant teams. Councillor Seaton agreed to consider this.
8. Councillor Boden asked Councillor Seaton which Cabinet Members have been successful in achieving the strategic objectives. Councillor Seaton said members are regularly provided with updates on the delivery of the Business Plan and Portfolio Holder reports. He explained that following the resignation of Councillor Mason due to ill-health, his responsibilities have been delegated to other members and although it can be difficult to manage both the business-side of the Council and reduced finances, he is extremely happy with how the Cabinet is performing.
9. Councillor Boden asked if each Cabinet member has been equally successful in fulfilling their role. Councillor Seaton said each member of Cabinet is successful in their own Portfolios and it is down to the wider Council to decide on their levels of success.
10.Councillor Boden suggested Councillor Mrs Laws (Portfolio Holder for Neighbourhood Planning) has a challenging Portfolio and workload and asked for Councillor Seaton’s view on this. Councillor Seaton said Councillor Mrs Laws is very competent and experienced in her Portfolio but recognises that it does involve a great deal of work. He said if ever Councillor Mrs Laws has issues managing the workload, she can discuss this with him and he will re-consider the responsibilities.
11.Councillor Owen asked who is in charge of the Council and how is the Council being run at Cabinet level. Councillor Seaton said all elected members are responsible collectively for the future of the Council but as recognised that technically, as Leader of the Council, he is ‘in charge’. He said he was extremely privileged to be joined by very competent Cabinet members and thanked them for their support. He explained that each Cabinet member is responsible for their own Portfolio with support from the Corporate Management Team and information is channelled through to members via Council meetings, All-Member Seminars and many other avenues.
12.Councillor Owen asked how sustainable the current Cabinet is and asked if consideration had been given to changing the Council’s decision-making system to a Committee system. Councillor Seaton explained that in light of Councillor Mason’s resignation responsibilities have been distributed amongst the current members and they are effectively managing this. As he is half-way through his term in office, he felt it inappropriate to introduce a new member to Cabinet but reiterated that if any members face difficulty in their role in Cabinet, he will re-evaluate the current position. Regarding the current decision-making system, he believed it would be inappropriate of him to consider this as the decision should be that of all Councillors.
13.Councillor Tierney explained that the Cabinet system benefits from additional powers and asked Councillor Seaton if he was happy to accept that all decisions of the Council are his responsibility. Councillor Seaton confirmed that he is happy to accept this responsibility.
14.Councillor Booth disagreed that all members have responsibility for the Council as there is a Cabinet system within the Council and in his view, decisions are made at Group Level as oppose to across all elected members.
15.Councillor Booth said as Leader of the Council, Councillor Seaton should have a view on whether the Council would benefit from a Committee system. Councillor Seaton explained that in his opinion, Cabinet is performing well and as he has no experience of a Committee system he cannot assess its effectiveness.
16.Councillor Mrs Laws clarified that she was given time to reflect on the responsibility of her Portfolio and the work it would involve. She added that she enjoys her role but if she required any support, she knows the Leader would be willing to assist. Councillor Boden thanked Councillor Mrs Laws for the clarification.
17.Councillor Booth asked if Councillor Seaton felt engagement levels with members has improved since the Chief Executives commitment to the Corporate Governance Committee and if so, how. Councillor Seaton said members currently receive comprehensive levels of engagement by monthly Portfolio Holder Briefings, All Members Seminars, Press Releases, Corporate Management Team briefings and many other avenues. He added that usually very few members attend these sessions and this is indicative of the issues faced in engaging members.
18.Councillor Booth said focus needs to be given on a different approach to member engagement. He suggested that reports to members need to be concise and only contain the information members require to make decisions. He would like the Council to reconsider the delegation of responsibilities within the current system. Councillor Seaton said whilst there are several means of communication for members, they are always trying to improve methods of communication. He agreed that he and officers will strive to make reports as concise but comprehensive as possible.
19.Councillor Boden asked Councillor Seaton what he has learnt over the past months in relation to member engagement. Councillor Seaton said one of his priorities is to improve the way in which information is conveyed to members in future.
20.Councillor Booth asked Councillor Seaton his opinion on reconsidering the delegation of decision making within the Council. Councillor Seaton explained that he is consistently considering ways in which the Council can improve and communicate.
21.Councillor Tierney asked Councillor Seaton if he believes the Council’s role is to be a business or to provide public services in a business-like way. Councillor Seaton explained that the Council provides both statutory and discretionary services to the local community and whilst the Council aim to deliver the best possible services with the resources we have, the Council does have to act as a business. He added that the Council must be commercially-minded and willing to take calculated risks in order to increase income.
22.Councillor Tierney asked Councillor Seaton to expand on his response. Councillor Seaton said there are times in which decisions must be made in a business-like manner and times when decisions are made based on the best outcome to residents. He added that in essence the Council must provide public services in a business-like way.
23.Councillor Tierney asked Councillor Seaton if he believes the Council has taken the best action in privatising our leisure centres and if we are able to influence future service delivery. Councillor Seaton explained that as part of the Comprehensive Spending Review (CSR), the Council decided to retain the leisure centre service provision but consider other operational management options in order to improve the Council’s financial position. Following consideration by Cabinet of various alternative options for management of the leisure centres in October 2016, a full business case was presented to Full Council in March 2017 and members decided to enter into a formal procurement process to appoint a leisure operator to manage the leisure centres. This in turn will contribute to £351k of savings year on year to the Council’s financial position. Service delivery standards of the contractor will be secured through a detailed service specification and ongoing performance reporting. The contractor, Freedom Leisure, is a non-profit leisure Trust which manages leisure and cultural facilities on behalf of 23 partners across the UK.
24.Councillor Tierney highlighted that Wisbech suffers statistically from poor levels of health and life expectancy. Based on this, he asked why a commercial decision had been made to close the Hudson’s Indoor Bowls Club which could potentially impact the health of its users. Councillor Seaton reiterated that Freedom Leisure is a non-profit organisation and the decision to change the management of the leisure centres was decided by Full Council as part of CSR. He added that Freedom Leisure is a long-term operator and is prepared to invest and improve our leisure centres too.
25.Councillor Booth highlighted that the Conservative Group decided to review the leisure centres and as Leader of the Opposition Group, he did not form part of this decision.
26.Councillor Booth asked Councillor Seaton if we can influence the services delivered under the new leisure centre contract and whether there is any flexibility within the contract. Councillor Seaton said he is unaware of the contractual obligations.
27.Councillor Hodgson said Freedom Leisure does not manage any centres geographically close to Fenland and asked for confirmation that the contract is for 15 years. Councillor Seaton confirmed that the contract is for 15 years and the location of their other centres should have no impact on the service they offer to Fenland.
28.Councillor Hodgson explained that the Hudson Indoor Bowls Club is a serious loss to Wisbech and its residents. There is no other indoor bowls clubs within close proximity and the 150 members of the Club will have to travel outside of Wisbech to continue playing. He said at a recent Golden Age Fayre in Wisbech, the Indoor Bowls Club had received a very positive response from attendees. He added that he had discussed the issue with Councillor Buckton (Portfolio Holder for Leisure) and asked if the Council had signed the contract with Freedom Leisure and whether the Bowls Club could remain open.
Councillor Boden had given prior permission to the Mayor of Wisbech, Councillor Human, to ask a question to Councillor Seaton in relation to the Hudson Indoor Bowls Club and leisure contract.
Councillor Human informed members that he is the Chairman of the Hudson Indoor Bowls Club. He said it had been announced recently that the Hudson Indoor Bowls Club will be closed in order for a new gym to be installed at the Hudson Leisure Centre. He disagreed with the projected statistics relating to increased usage of the new gym facility and explained that Fenland District Council had informed him that they would assist the Bowls Club going forward and asked Councillor Seaton how he will do this.
Councillor Seaton said there is a continual dialogue between Councillor Buckton, officers and the bowls club to see if alternative options can be made. He explained that Freedom Leisure were asked, during the procurement process, to assess the usage of the area in which the Bowls Club play and whilst it is not an easy decision, there are times where difficult decisions must be made. He said the Council is continuing to try and mitigate the outcome of this decision and, if they can, help the Hudson Bowls Club continue.
Paul Medd said the management of the leisure centres had been member’s decision as part of CSR and officers have facilitated the procurement process based on this.
Councillor Buckton confirmed that he will do whatever he can to
help members of the Bowls Club continue with their activity. The
position of the Bowls Club is unfortunately a consequence of a
decision that was made in relation to the contract with Freedom
Leisure but he assured members that he will do what he can to
minimise the impact of this decision.
Members asked questions, made comments and received responses in relation to the leisure contract and Indoor Bowls Club as follows;
1. Councillor Tierney said the decision regarding the Hudson Bowls Club has put the Council in a negative light and reiterated that the members of the Bowls Club rely on this activity for their health and social wellbeing.
2. Councillor Booth asked for further information on the savings and costs associated with the leisure centre contract. Richard Cassidy confirmed that the saving is £351,000 with the CSR target being £305,000 and leisure centres will no longer be a net loss to the Council.
3. Councillor Booth asked what control the Council will have over the services provided by the new leisure centre provider and whether this can be amended to reconsider the services on offer. Richard Cassidy confirmed the contractor been appointed as per the detailed specification which details how the operation is to be run and operation standards. He reminded members that this had been agreed by Full Council.
4. Councillor Boden asked if the specification included the Hudson Bowls Club. Richard Cassidy said the contract included the redevelopment of the Bowls Club in to gym and dance studio.
5. Councillor Booth and Councillor Tierney asked if this contract can be altered. Amy Brown confirmed that whilst she is not familiar with the detailed specification of the contract, the removal of the Bowls Club would have been a material factor the provider took into account when bidding. To try and change this would put pay to the procurement process that has taken place and undermine the Council’s position. She added that the Council could be liable for costs as the provider may have committed resources to the contract on the basis of being the successful bidder.
6. Councillor Tierney asked if there was an option originally to include the Bowls Club in the specification. Richard Cassidy said the delegation by Council was to pursue the most economically and advantageous tender for the Council. On this basis, the contract that was accepted was that one that included the refurbishment of the bowls hall. He added that although the formal contract has not been signed, the contractor had been appointed as the successful bidder and was working to mobilise for an early December 2018 start.
7. Councillor Buckton confirmed that he is attending a meeting with the Bowls Club on Friday 19 October to consider other options and solutions.
8. Councillor Human thanked members and officers for their responses.
Members continued with questions to Councillor Seaton;
1. Councillor Booth asked Councillor Seaton what his role was in the CPCA, how is he balancing the two roles and how is he ensuring adequate levels of interaction between the CPCA and Fenland. Councillor Seaton explained that he is a member of the CPCA Transport Committee and the two roles are inextricably linked. In Fenland we have received between £40-50 million from the CPCA in funding for projects as well as more regional projects that will have a direct impact on Fenland. He said without the support of the Corporate Management Team and the work of the previous Leader of the Council, this funding would not have been forthcoming to Fenland. He explained that officer and members know that he is contactable at any time to discuss any issues and ideas and attends as many Fenland District Council meetings as he can. He added that although the role involves a lot of his time, he is able to fulfil this.
2. Councillor Booth asked if there is ever any conflict between his role at the CPCA and as Leader of the Council. Councillor Seaton said he had chosen to focus on Transport within the CPCA as he recognises the improvement required on Fenland’s infrastructure and said his faith in Cabinet and Councillor Oliver (Deputy Leader and Substitute CPCA member) makes balancing the two roles possible. Whilst there is a lot of time and resource spent balancing the two roles, Fenland benefits greatly from the CPCA.
3. Councillor Booth said there are many studies being carried out in Fenland but very little are being delivered. He said the Government need to streamline the process for funding and asked what Councillor Seaton’s involvement is with Government and Ministers and if he has any influence over this. Councillor Seaton explained that Mayor James Palmer is Chairman of the Transport Committee and is very involved in liaising with the Government. He explained that the CPCA committees have only been ratified in the last month so there will be more involvement with Government now this has been done.
4. Councillor Boden asked Councillor Seaton what percentage of his time is spent on CPCA responsibilities. Councillor Seaton confirmed approximately 50% of his time is spent on CPCA work but confirmed a lot of projects are taking place at the moment and Councillor Oliver is able to substitute for him if required.
5. Councillor Booth asked what the current situation is in relation to Devo 2, how it is being promoted and what the implications for Fenland are. Councillor Seaton said Fenland District Council played a lead role in finalising the Devolution Deal which was presented to Government and ultimately resulted in the formation of the CPCA. As the CPCA is still in its infancy, focus is being given to delivering everything set out in Devo 1 before turning their attention to Devo 2.
6. Councillor Booth asked for a timescale on this. Councillor Seaton said he is unsure as it is dependable on the progress of Devo 1.
7. Councillor Boden asked what progress is being made towards the revision of the Local Plan. Councillor Seaton explained that there is a statutory requirement for the Council to formally assess their Local Plan every 5 years to determine if an update is required. It is proposed that the review will commence in early 2019 with the result of the review being taken to Council at a later date.
8. Councillor Booth asked if members will be advised of the updated National Planning Policy Framework (NPPF). Nick Harding confirmed that when a formal approach is made to members about the Local Plan review, they will be given a summary of issues the new Local Plan needs to tackle and this would include the summary of the new parts of the NPPF and in particular viability challenges.
9. Councillor Booth asked for Councillor Seaton’s opinion on the current Economic Development Member-Led Review. Councillor Seaton said he is open-minded as to what the review might determine, based on the fact that economy is one of the Council’s outward facing priorities. He is happy for the Review Group to recommend the best course of action and is looking forward to hearing their views.
10.Councillor Booth asked if there were any areas in particular Councillor Seaton wanted the Review Group to focus on. Councillor Seaton said consideration needs to be given on how the Council can maximise Economic Development opportunities and examine the best options for the Council.
Councillor Boden thanked Councillor Seaton and invited Members to ask questions to Paul Medd.
Members asked questions, made comments and received responses as
follows;
1. Councillor Booth asked Paul Medd if there are sufficient resources to effectively run the Council. Paul Medd said over the past decade the Council have continually reviewed the services they deliver as part of the CSR process with sufficient reductions in management and staff. He believes the Council have maintained a good enough capacity and proactivity to pursue high-value projects such as securing CPCA funding. However whilst he believes the Council has resources to deliver member’s priorities, there is always a degree of financial uncertainty. He added that there is little spare capacity in relation to officer’s workloads whilst officers continually strive to deliver for Fenland and its residents. He explained that the Corporate Management Team continue to create the right environment for people to work in and recognises the issues surrounding the Contact Centre and staffing in certain teams. In regards to the Economic Development service, until we know the outcome of the Member-Led Review there is pressure in this team and service area. He highlighted that there are national challenges in recruitment in certain service areas however the Council continue to review the positioning of resources to enable them to deliver members strategic priorities.
2. Councillor Tierney asked Paul Medd what the morale and mood is of Council staff. Paul Medd said officers have been through unprecedented challenges over the past few years which can bring a degree of uncertainty and anxiety. Whilst this is a national issue, Fenland District Council has a One Team culture which helps during difficult times. He said a recent staff survey had shown 84% of respondents are proud to work for Fenland District Council and 93% are committed to their work at Fenland District Council. He assured members that he will continue to work closely with officers so they are clear about the issues surrounding future priorities and resources.
3. Councillor Booth asked if the staff survey is carried out by a third-party and what is the percentage of the response rate. Paul Medd explained that whilst most Council’s do not have staff surveys, Fenland District Council carry out their survey every two years. He highlighted that this year, 175 FTE responded which is an increase of 27% from 2016.
4. Councillor Booth asked for confirmation that the survey is carried out by a third party. Paul Medd confirmed that the surveys are carried out internally via an electronic survey and employees can remain anonymous and submit their feedback confidentially. The Corporate Management Team encourages staff throughout the year, as part of Staff-Briefings, to give honest feedback.
5. Councillor Booth asked Paul Medd how successful the Council is in recruitment and what the staff turnover rate is at the Council. Paul Medd explained that Fenland District Council has over many years, tried to build a strong reputation which can help with recruitment locally. He hopes that potential employees recognise that the Council has a supportive working environment where people are openly encouraged to share ideas and express themselves. He highlighted that there are many officers within the Council that started as junior officers and have worked their way up to levels of management. Whilst this profile can help recruitment locally, there is a national shortage surrounding recruitment in certain services. In relation to turnover rates, he explained that the Council performs well compared to national statistics, with a turnover rate (to date) of 4.16% with the national average being approximately 15%. He reminded members that a degree of turnover can be healthy as it brings individuals with new ideas into the Council and members must consider the turnover rate as partly a consequence of the Council’s downsizing over the years.
6. Councillor Boden asked on behalf of Councillor Count, who was unable to attend the meeting, why benchmarking of service costs between Fenland District Council and other neighbouring Authorities has not been pursued. Paul Medd confirmed that he had met with Councillor Count recently to discuss this further and confirmed that he wants to explore value for money and undertake a cost-comparison assessment, both corporately and for individual services. Paul Medd explained that there was a national performance measurement framework in the past called Best Value Performance Indicators. The Government withdrew this during the period of austerity to reduce the burden on Councils. Whilst this has helped reduce the cost of employing dedicated performance officers, it has left the Council with no benchmarking data to access and assess. He confirmed that there is data available via other sources such as The Chartered Institute for Public Finance (CIPFA) however the Council would need to commit a financial resource to CIPFA in order to obtain specific data we require. He highlighted that only a number of Local Authorities subscribe to this service and therefore we may be relying on statistics of other Local Authorities with different demographics to Fenland, which may be of no benefit to members. He agreed to consider other sources and circulate a Briefing Note to members to gauge their opinion on committing resources to this.
7. Councillor Boden thanked Paul Medd for his explanation and said members may not want to commit officer’s time and resource to this. He asked if we could approach a neighbouring authority to access specific data that would assist us, such as the comparable cost of refuse collection. He said, for example, East Cambs District Council charge £1 per property per weekly collection and said it would be useful to compare this with our figures. Councillor Murphy confirmed that Fenland District Council charges 50p per household per collection.
8. Councillor Booth agreed that there is no benefit in gathering this information if it is of no relevance to the Council. He explained Council services have changed dramatically and unless we engage with a similar authority, the statistics are pointless.
9. Councillor Boden asked Paul Medd how successful he believes the Council have been in delivering CSR1 and what the key outputs and aspirations are for CSR2. Paul Medd said he believed CSR1 had been an extremely successful process for the Council with a Member-Led Framework being created to make decisions on areas of saving. The target set by members was a saving of £1.6 million and he can confirm that this figure has either been delivered against or is in the process of being delivered against. The target date to achieve this was set as 2021 however the Council have already achieved a large proportion of this, with other projects still underway. For example, the leisure centre contracts had a target saving of £305,000 so the ability to achieve this overall figure is dependent on this and a number of other projects. Whilst positive, he highlighted that there is a forecast deficit for 2023 which brings uncertainty with issues such as the Fairer Funding Review by Government, which members must consider. In relation to CSR2, the aspirations are similar to CSR1 with officers providing the same professional support with an aim to position the Council to deliver a sustainable balanced budget. Members were previously keen to protect frontline services and will need to define this further as part of CSR2. He added that the Corporate Management team will continue to support and guide staff through these changes and continue to work in effective partnerships with other Councils for certain services.
10.Councillor Booth asked if the Council will exceed the £1.6 million target saving and if so, what is the projected figure. Paul Medd said profiling shows we are performing slightly over this figure and explained that during the process the Council have been able to consider other options and savings that were not necessarily framed within CSR, for example certain vacancies in posts have instead been redistributed to existing officers.
11.Councillor Booth asked if the Council have reconsidered the areas of CSR in light of the savings in other service areas. Paul Medd said this would be down to member’s discretion and added that due to the Council ‘downsizing’ during CSR1, service budgets have been scrutinised and reduced accordingly giving an extra saving in these areas. He added that with these savings the Council have augmented their reserves and due to this, have not incurred minimum revenue provision in the revenue account to pay for the borrowing. By not having to borrow, this has relieved the pressure that the revenue account may have faced over the coming years. He highlighted to members that the Medium-Term Financial Position does have projected further deficit of £600-800,000 which is affected by variables largely outside of the Council’s control. He added that he and Kamal Mehta, along with Councillor Mrs Hay and Councillor Seaton, will be bringing a presentation to a forthcoming All-Members Seminar to show members the Council’s financial position and outlook.
12.Councillor Boden asked Paul Medd for his justification for signing the letter to the former Chief Executive of the CPCA in his capacity as Chief Executive of Fenland District Council and asked if there were consideration was given to the delivery of that the letter given the nature of its content. Paul Medd confirmed that the communication was between officers and did not contain any confidential content. In the past when there have been certain issues that need raising within the CPCA these have been encouraged and articulated by officers to the Chief Executive. Unfortunately in this instance, the former Chief Executive of the CPCA was on annual leave and written communication was therefore necessary as oppose to the usual officer to officer discussion. The letter was written to highlight issues officers thought needed discussing and unfortunately due to the timing of the former Chief Executive’s resignation, this has been caught up in further outside criticism and scrutiny against the CPCA. He explained that as the CPCA is still in its infancy, naturally there are going to be teething issues but we must not forget the CPCA’s achievements and how Fenland has benefitted from these.
13.Councillor Tierney said he was surprised by the letter and explained that whilst he has always found Paul Medd to be professional and act cautiously within his role, consideration should have been given to how the letter could be perceived as it has now been used in a political way. Paul Medd said it was never their intention to make the content of the letter political and unfortunately due to the timing it has been caught up with other issues. Paul Medd said based on issues officers have seen within other organisations historically, it was felt appropriate to give their contributions to help the CPCA.
14.Councillor Booth agreed with Paul Medd and said it would have been remiss to not have raised these valid concerns.
Councillor Boden thanked Councillor Seaton, Paul Medd, members of Cabinet and officers for their responses and attendance today and said it had been extremely helpful to members.
(Councillor Buckton arrived at the meeting at 3.25pm)
(Councillor Hodgson declared that he is the President of the Hudson Indoor Bowls Club, Wisbech)