Agenda item

To determine the conditions for the applications.

Nick Harding presented the proposed conditions to members.

Members received a presentation, in accordance with the Public Participation Procedure, from Councillor Murphy as a local councillor. Councillor Murphy stated that he wanted to make a statement so that it is clear to Chatteris Town Council and the people he represents in Chatteris that he will not be speaking on this application as a planning committee member, and he has been advised about speaking against the conditions as they are detrimental and pre-conceived to the officer’s decision. He feels there is no longer free speech or common-sense prevailing.

Councillor Murphy made the point that these are his opinions only, he is not against conserving buildings per se but single small properties such as this he believes there has to be some give and take working together for the betterment of the property. He stated that when he read the conditions being imposed on this property he was staggered and feels it is no wonder developers shy away from restoring these properties and let them fall into disrepair as there is no way they can afford to renovate to this degree to be able to re-sell and no one can afford to purchase the property with these conditions.

Councillor Murphy expressed the view that he can see the reasons to preserve the general exterior, which the developer is happy to do and he agrees with, but when it comes to the windows, the doors and drainpipes etc and there are a lot of these etcs in the conditions which he feels is ludicrous as they are to be replaced in perpetuity with 1800s materials and he feels that nobody can live like this in this day and age. He expressed the opinion that people want comfortable and stress-free maintenance.

Councillor Murphy stated that it is possible to implement conditions of this type referring to refurbishment of Chatteris House years ago when it was turned into six apartments and four houses but, in his view, this cannot be undertaken in a single property as is in front of members today. He feels common sense is needed but recognises that this is not a planning matter or reason.

Councillor Murphy referred to the reasons why he supported this application, backing up Chatteris Town Council, on visual impact, scale, character, appearance and NPPF policies 185c, 191, 192c, 195b and 195d, which he feels can all be taken with ambiguity.

Members asked questions of officers as follows:

·       Councillor Marks asked that as the building is in a derelict state it will have to be re-rendered so why it is being specified what paint can be used? Nick Harding responded that if paint is used that ends up sealing the outside of the building it could end up with damp and condensation problems.

·       Councillor Sutton asked that if these conditions are not placed on this application could it have huge implications for other properties and leave the door open for others to follow? Nick Harding responded that it would be considerably more difficult for officers to apply conditions of this nature on other buildings if it does have the specified conditions removed as the issue would be consistently raised with officers.

Members made comments, asked questions and received responses as follows:

·       Councillor Benney stated that looking at these conditions, the ones being disputed such as the paint he feels is a sensible one, it needs the right paint to allow the building to breathe and he feels it is not very costly either, and whilst it would ideally be better for the windows to be double glazed it is acknowledged that this cannot happen with owning a Listed Building and the aluminium or iron guttering, he feels it currently has plastic, but if this is a condition it is the same labour cost to install and would only be the price difference between plastic and iron, which would be more but on the scale of the job would not be a lot of money difference. He referred to the requirement for a Level 3 Historic Understanding of Historic Buildings which he feels is where the real money will be spent and will stop this development coming forward and as much as he would like to say remove all these conditions the committee cannot. Councillor Benney made the point that the property is a Grade II Listed Building and it was brought as such and when you start doing work on it, it does become expensive, which he does not agree with or like, but to go against something like recording under Level 3 Historic England’s Understanding will leave the Council open to challenge and possibly fined. He expressed the view that the conditions highlighted in the report are fair and whilst he does not like to see conditions restrictive to a project being brought forward, especially one such as this which is desperately in need of work doing to it, he cannot see where these conditions can be removed.

·       Councillor Topgood stated that looking at these conditions, as someone who has dealt with Listed Buildings a lot, he feels there is nothing that is unreasonable and whilst some, such as the survey will cost a lot, he cannot see any way round this. He referred to the paint and made the point that people do not realise what the damage the wrong paint can make to a Listed Building. Councillor Topgood expressed the view that the conditions should be kept.

·       Councillor Marks stated that he agrees in principle with the previous speakers, however, his biggest concern is this will again be like a lot of other properties in Chatteris, and March and will not get spent on. He feels this property should never have been allowed to get in this condition in the first place and the Council should have gone to the owner four years ago informing him what he needed to do. Councillor Marks expressed the view that this will take another year to two years and then the property will just fall down, and the owner will come back and say there is nothing viable to do.

·       Councillor Sutton stated the cost of these works are huge but with this particular application the applicant brought the property as a Grade II Listed Building so he must have known what was ahead of him and if the committee is foolish enough to not agree officer’s recommendation, he feels there will be repercussions in the future. He expressed the opinion that members should not be involved with setting conditions, he has been on planning committee for around 12 years and not once has any member of this or previous committees brought up issues of concern with conditions, with it only being a concern to members about them not being too onerous and he does not believe officers make it onerous as they have to apply conditions that is aligned with the proposal and this should be supported and that conditions should be down to officers to apply, with members making decisions on land use. 

·       Councillor Mrs French stated that she agrees with Councillor Marks comments with regard to the length of time this property has been allowed to deteriorate. She feels a Section 215 notice should have been placed on the property years ago and then if no action was taken a Section 216, which occurred very recently elsewhere, and she would like to see more of this happening due to the state of some of the buildings across Fenland. Councillor Mrs French made the point that there has to be conditions, the owner brought the property and is lucky to have obtained planning permission so now they need to adhere to the conditions if they are going to bring it back into a reasonable state.

·       Councillor Mrs Davis stated that the most onerous condition is where you have to use consultants and asked if there is anyway the applicant could work with the Conservation Officer to limit the cost of that report. Nick Harding responded that there is best practice and standard that the conservation consultant would have to work to and depending upon when that work is done the Council may not have a Conservation Officer in post.

F/YR22/0217/LB

Proposed by Councillor Mrs French, seconded by Councillor Topgood and agreed that the conditions be APPROVED as per the officer’s recommendation.

F/YR22/0218/F

Proposed by Councillor Mrs French, seconded by Councillor Topgood and agreed that the conditions be APPROVED as per the officer’s recommendation.

(Councillor Connor declared that, as he had already considered the conditions applicable to these applications, he was pre-determined and took no part in the discussion and voting thereon. Councillor Mrs Davis took the Chair)

(Councillor Murphy declared that, as he had already considered the conditions applicable to these applications, he was pre-determined and once he had spoken as a local councillor took no part in the discussion and voting thereon)