Agenda item

To consider a petition regarding clinical waste collection charges.

The Chairman welcomed Mrs Sue Marshall to the meeting and invited her to present her petition concerning Clinical Waste Collection charges to Council.

 

Mrs Marshall made the following statement:

 

‘Good Afternoon Councillors, I am presenting the clinical waste petition on behalf of people who believe that the charge for the collection of clinical waste including sharps boxes is both unfair and discriminates against those residents who need the service. For an explanation of the ‘discriminatory’ description please look at the link contained in the petition. It came as a shock that this charge was to be brought in at very short notice with no consultation with either the public or Councillors.

 

The public campaign against the charge, this petition, has encouraged you to postpone this introduction to allow a sensible solution to be found. We urge you to permanently drop this charge. Diabetes effects 8000 Fenland residents and many others who use sharps boxes either continually or occasionally. There are also many residents who use the clinical waste service on an adhoc basis often after hospital stays or those being treated by district nurses and carers. Some of you will either be effected directly by the threat of this charge or know of people who will be. Those struggling will illness or disability through no fault of their own already have a heavy burden and we ask you not to impose an additional financial one.

 

A great risk to public health would be for residents to put sharps and clinical waste into their household rubbish and as you are a waste authority we ask that you do the right thing and minimise that risk by permanently dropping this charge. I have been told that in some instances sharps boxes are being replaced by much smaller ones and this will make the disposal of sharps boxes more frequent, increasing the potential costs to residents. Fenland District Council appears to be the only one in Cambridgeshire to charge for the collection of this waste. You, the Councillors will be seen to be acting unfairly, discriminating and lacking compassion to the sick and disabled, so we ask that you permanently withdraw the threat of this charge’.

 

Councillor Murphy addressed the petition with the following statement:

 

‘Thank you for your contribution Mrs Marshall. Public opinion on this matter is clearly demonstrated through the petition presented today for our consideration.

 

It is frustrating that this policy change by the NHS is being contemplated at short notice and delivered without thought to the transferred costs and workload, especially since what we appear to have is a system that works perfectly well for the customer. These changes do not just affect Fenland; this is being implemented across East Anglia and will result in a range of issues for customers.

 

Given that the decision is the NHS’s, I do hope that you will also be petitioning them. Whilst this may save the NHS thousands of pounds across the area, it will potentially cost the local authorities many hundreds of thousands of pounds at a time when it is difficult for local authorities to provide extra money for services and will no doubt result in other services suffering across the area if customers are not required to contribute towards these costs directly.

 

As you are aware, the collection of clinical waste is expensive because it involves specialist equipment and trained staff. Should the NHS make their proposed changes next year then the demands on the services across the region could be considerable, along with the cost.

 

Fenland is currently working with partner Cambridgeshire authorities to avoid this situation and aims to provide customers with community collection points, but this will require cooperation from the NHS and pharmacies. As a result, the Cambridgeshire authorities have requested that the NHS delay their changes until April 2019 to provide time for these options to be properly considered by Fenland councillors.

 

Through regular updates I have kept my member colleagues informed of the initial discussions and will be bringing a paper to cabinet to discuss the options later in the year. Your petition will form part of that consideration.

Thank you again for your time and efforts in bring forward this item’.

 

Councillor Murphy further stated that the charge of £5 was introduced in 2015, which has never been passed onto the residents who use the service, but if the NHS is insistent on their proposals, the Authority will incur costs of £130,000 resulting in the costs of other services having to be reviewed. The Council would ideally like to keep the service running at a nil charge to customers.

 

Councillor Murphy advised that the Council only have 9 dialysis customers on its records currently and 100 residents who it collects sharps boxes from, so the cost is currently negligible and that is why it has been able to run as a free collection, but the NHS is trying to pass this charge onto Local Authorities. He stated that the Suffolk Waste Partnership have written to a number of MP’s and the Chief Executive of the NHS to raise their concerns over the proposals, and the Recycling Cambridgeshire and Peterborough meeting (RECAP), which he chairs, have raised concerns over this matter with Stephen Barclay MP, and also Stuart Smith from the Primary Care Team of the Eastern Area.

 

Councillor Murphy mentioned that within the Midlands, the proposals for charging have been delayed and have not yet been implemented and it is hoped that the Eastern Region can also follow suit. He stated that following the RECAP meeting, he has requested that his concerns are raised at the highest possible level within the NHS and also to the Clinical Commissioners. Councillor Murphy stated that with regard to sharps boxes, different sizes can be obtained, and it was worth noting that some boxes that are collected do only contain 1 or 2 needles.

 

Councillor Murphy proposed that the petition be noted and the concerns raised be acknowledged. He further proposed that this issue be raised again at Cabinet later in the year.

 

Councillor Oliver seconded the proposal and the item was opened for debate.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor stated that she has listened to what Councillor Murphy has said and the reason why the petition started was because Cabinet had circulated an email in July, informing all Members that the Council would start charging £8 per collection for clinical waste and sharps boxes from 1 September 2018, which was made without any debate or discussion.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor stated that she has contacted several pharmacies and GP surgeries in Wisbech and none of them have been made aware of the proposals, along with the residents that would be affected, even though the email stated that it would be implemented by the Council on 1 September 2018. She asked for confirmation as to when it was agreed that the charge would be raised to £8 and would include sharps boxes that were also collected from pharmacies and surgeries.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor stated the only meeting where this matter was raised was at the Overview and Scrutiny meeting in January 2015, where Councillor Mrs French was the Chairman at the time, and it was agreed that customers who had clinical waste would be charged £5, but officers would consider the charge on an ad-hoc basis. In the email to members in July of this year it had stated that customers will be able to contact the Council and a driver will collect the sharps box for a fee of £8 per collection. Councillor Mrs Bucknor questioned whether this will be a private contractor, bearing in mind that there are 8,000 customers.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor stated in another calculation by the Council, it is assuming that only 4,000 people will use the service and, therefore, where will the other 4,000 customers dispose of their needles and clinical waste?. She feels that the proposal has not been considered fully; the current service is efficient and has a simple system for arranging a collection.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor questioned why the Cabinet thought that this issue was not necessary for open discussion amongst Councillors as this proposal is a health and safety issue and discriminates people who have a medical condition. If this petition is not supported, vulnerable persons will be targeted through no fault of their own.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor stated that she understands that negotiations are still ongoing with the NHS, however, discussions have been ongoing since April and the Council have still decided to charge from 1 September 2018. She does not agree that it should go back to Cabinet feeling instead it should go to Overview and Scrutiny Committee, if there is going to be any discussion or a debate, to enable involvement of all Councillors.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor stated that while she appreciates that Councillor Murphy has put a proposal forward, she would like to propose that there should not be any charges for residents for the collection and disposal of sharps boxes and clinical waste. Councillor Booth seconded the proposal and the item was opened for debate.

 

Councillor Booth stated that he has listened to both Councillor Murphy and Councillor Mrs Bucknor and he would like to add that the Council has a corporate objective of protecting the most vulnerable persons in our society and this issue goes against that objective. He questioned why this Council is the only one who has announced that it is going to charge?

 

Councillor Booth stated that he appreciates that it is the NHS who are passing the charge onto Local Government and whilst he commends the action already taken by the Council, the local MP should also be lobbied as he is the Health Minister. In his view, the Council needs to say we are not going to introduce this charge and try to find a way of not implementing it and, therefore, he supports the petition.

 

Councillor Murphy reiterated that it is the NHS who is passing this charge on to the local authority, but it will not be introduced yet. He stated that the £5 charge was mentioned in the fees and charges in 2015 and with regard to the £8 charge, that is the cost that the County Council would charge for collection as they have appointed a contractor to carry out the collections with customers being able to use any size box and if it is a large box, it may only result in a yearly collection.

 

Councillor Murphy emphasised that the Council will not implement the charge until the NHS insists that the Council has to charge.

 

Councillor Booth expressed the view that it is down to this Council as the waste collection authority to decide whether it wishes to introduce this charge.

 

Councillor Tierney appreciated the valid points made by Councillors Mrs Bucknor and Booth, however, they have not identified where the £130,000 costs are going to be found to fund the service. In order to fund a service that previously did not need to be paid for; any proposal should state where the additional monies required are going to be found, which could mean that a service would need to be withdrawn and then the opposition will state that this service should not be cut.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor referred to the suggestion that the NHS should be contacted and the MP Steve Barclay has already been written to twice but he has not replied. The Council have decided that they do intend to charge, and with regard to the question of where is the money going to come from, we have read in the report about the various savings that are going to made due to various projects that are taking place, for example the leisure centres.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor stated that currently there is no other authority planning to implement this charge and as Councillor Murphy has indicated that the Council definitely do not want to implement the charge, then it should not be introduced and the petition of 880 signatures should be supported. She expressed the opinion that this proposal is to do with people’s health and there have been no factual facts and figures provided of where the £8 proposal has come from and how much the service is going to cost the authority.

 

Councillor John Clark questioned whether the Council have written to Steve Barclay MP, the Health Minister, and whether there has been a reply. Councillor Murphy stated that yes a letter has been sent; however, a response is still to be received.

 

Councillor Murphy stated that he has a letter from Suffolk County Council who has explained, that in budgetary terms, the proposed changes will save NHS England approximately £2,000, based on their figures, and in contrast the expected door to door collection and disposal costs in Suffolk are likely to be in the region of over £100,000.

 

Councillor Mrs Mayor made the point that there is an amendment by Councillor Mrs Bucknor and seconded by Councillor Booth to the proposal and Members need to vote on this amendment first, which is to support the petition and not to charge for clinical waste collections.

 

The Leader stated that, as Councillor Tierney has already mentioned, currently as an authority this Council is not charging for collections or intending to charge, but if the NHS do implement the charge, the issue could be brought back to Council for discussion on whether there is a way to carry out the service at no charge. 

 

Amy Brown stated that Members have to vote on the first amendment proposed before any further amendments can be considered.

 

A recorded vote was held on the amended proposal by Councillor Mrs Bucknor and seconded by Councillor Booth.

 

In favour of the proposal-Councillors Mrs Bligh, Booth, Mrs Bucknor, Bucknor, Court, Mrs Cox, Mrs French and Skoulding.

 

Against the proposal – Councillors Benney, Butcher, Count, Cornwell, Mrs Hay, Miss Hoy, King, Mrs Laws, Miscandlon, Murphy ,Mrs Newell, Oliver, Owen, Pugh and Seaton.

 

Abstentions - Councillors Buckton, S Clark, J Clark, Mrs Tanfield, Sutton, Tibbs and Tierney.

 

Amy Brown stated that now that amendment has fallen the next amendment required a seconder in order for a vote to take place.

 

The Leader proposed that to move this matter forward, if the NHS does impose a charge, the issue be referred back to Council to see if there is any alternative option which can put forward to mitigate this issue. Councillor Tibbs seconded this proposal.

 

Councillor Booth stated that he supports the Leader’s suggestion; however, it is important that core decisions are debated properly at Full Council with the full facts, and, in his view, the full facts concerning this issue have not been provided.

 

Councillor Sutton stated he had abstained from the first vote as it is still not sure as to what the outcome will be concerning charging and he does not feel able to vote to stop something that is not actually happening. He suggested that all avenues should be looked at, so this charge does not get implemented and that the four one stop shops in each of the Fenland towns have central collection points for residents to take their boxes to be collected.

 

Councillor Murphy agreed that Councillor Sutton’s suggestion could be considered. He made the point that the timescales for the proposal keep being moved and, in his opinion, it may be that the NHS reconsiders their proposal.

 

Councillor Mrs Bucknor stated that, although she is not happy with the current outcome, she will support the Leader’s proposal. She made the point that this issue was a Cabinet decision with their being no further update to the last email received stating the charge was going to be introduced.

 

Councillor Mrs Hay stated that the subject was never referred to Cabinet as it was a Portfolio Holder decision. It formed part of the fees and charges in 2015, when Councillor Mrs Bucknor and herself were part of the Overview and Scrutiny Committee, and at that time it was felt that there were so few people who would require a collection that the charge would be waived, but the charge has always been in situ.

 

It was AGREED that there be no charge for clinical waste collections until the matter has been returned to Full Council to discuss the options.

 

Councillor Mrs Mayor thanked Mrs Marshall for bringing this important matter to our attention and for her contribution today.

 

(During the decision making on this item, a member of the public was warned about their conduct and subsequently removed from the Council Chamber.)

 

(The following members expressed a non-pecuniary interest in this item by virtue of the fact that the introduction of charges for the disposal of clinical waste may impact them personally due to underlying medical conditions effecting themselves or family members; Councillors Bucknor, Mrs Cox, Mrs Mayor, Skoulding and Tibbs.)

 

(Councillors Mrs Bucknor and Mrs French declared a non-pecuniary interest, due to the fact that they had signed the petition not to charge for clinical waste, but stated that they remained open minded to be able to take part in the debate and were not pre-determined.)

 

(Councillor Owen requested that it be recorded that he abstained from voting on the second proposal.)