Agenda item

Presentation attached.

Councillor Mason welcomed Ivan Horsfall Turner, Dan Palframan and Matt Hunt from Freedom Leisure to the meeting and for the presentation that had been provided in advance.

Members made comments, asked questions and received responses as follows: 

1.    Councillor Miscandlon asked how COVID-19 had affected overall business and the future business plan of Freedom Leisure in the Fenland area. Ivan Horsfall Turner said it has impacted on them hugely both as a company and within Fenland. Membership had grown substantially in the first year of 2019/20 but has now dropped, and income in the last month or two has been around 40% of what would have been received previously. The second lockdown will impact even further. He thanked the Council, particularly Carol Pilson and Phil Hughes, for their support since March. He said the support of all 20 local authorities has been crucial to maintain Freedom Leisure’s viability and sustainability. Income and customer numbers are likely to be extremely low at least until next March so it is a very challenging time.

2.    Councillor Miscandlon said when the original lockdown ended, there was negative press over Freedom's handling of the swimming teaching clubs, particularly in Whittlesey and asked Ivan Horsfall Turner if he felt this could have been handled better and what has been done to ensure it does not happen again. Ivan Horsfall Turner agreed that in hindsight this situation could have been handled better; the reality is that it has been a challenging year and perhaps what was a significant change for the programming of the swimming clubs would have had more corporate oversight, and communication and discussion through FDC officers in a normal series of events. Matt Hunt confirmed that dialogue with the clubs is ongoing; they are working hard with one club which was specifically unhappy with the situation and hopefully what Freedom put in place on reopening was a reduced programme reflective of the level of support that Fenland was offering. It meant changes for all their customers, but we all have to accept changes, and work is ongoing to ensure the club is as happy as can be in this scenario. Councillor Miscandlon thanked Freedom Leisure for the answer, saying we can all move forward.

3.    Councillor Booth referred to the audit scores for reviews that have been conducted and said it was concerning to see an external audit raised some red and amber issues. He asked what the nature of those issues are and if they have been rectified. Matt Hunt said the area manager audit is an internal audit conducted by a manager from another area and we would generally expect an audit in the first year of operating a new contract to be lower, the benchmark being against a site that has been operating since 2002 where systems and procedures have been embedded. There is some room for improvement on the leisure client scores across the sites and the biggest issues are always in relation to safety and customer service but there is nothing overly concerning in these scores. Dan Palframan said there is a lack of an automatic front door in Chatteris which the auditor noted and led to the lower score for Chatteris, but it is not a priority to install one and there is no concern over this. Matt Hunt repeated that health and safety is the most important score and he encourages the health and safety manager to be overly critical in this respect rather than an issue be identified as the result of an accident; again there is nothing to be concerned about in this respect but it is expected that all the audit scores will increase over time. Councillor Booth said the health and safety scores were graded as green but they were relatively low scores in comparison to some other grades but he assumes that is because no critical issues have been found in those audits but rather an accumulation of small issues that can be remedied quickly. Matt Hunt agreed that this was correct. The internal company target is 60% and there is an automatic fail for certain items, and this has not happened.

4.    Councillor Topgood said FDC had provided Freedom Leisure with substantial funding during the pandemic. He asked how much has been learned since the last lockdown and how confident are Freedom that they are going to get through this further period of four weeks and any further period of lockdown after that. Ivan Horsfall Turner said it is a different scenario, back in March the leisure centres were closed with five hours’ notice. There was no warning then, but there was a little more notice this time which allowed them to plan. Equally they were different lockdowns in terms of profiling of costs. For example. the first lockdown took place during summer and Freedom saved on utility costs by shutting the buildings completely; however, in this current lockdown they need to protect the centres, assets of FDC, by keeping them heated, therefore, the cost profile is different. Also, the real cost is in terms of the reduction of users which will continue during the rest of this financial year and most certainly have an impact into next year. It will take some time to increase user numbers so the reality is that Freedom will need ongoing financial support into next year as indeed the whole sector will. However, in terms of the importance of this service in aiding people’s health and well-being, it is vital to the long-term security of the service. 

5.    Councillor Yeulett asked how Freedom are coping financially now, having provided figures for 2019/20, and how will FDC be reimbursed in due course. Ivan Horsfall Turner said they are in monthly discussions with officers to give details on an open book basis but it is challenging; Freedom is struggling to maintain a decent level of viability but he assured Councillor Yeulett that the organisation is viable and stable having had a strong year in 2019/20. FDC's current agreement runs to the end of March 2021 but it is inevitable that Freedom will not be in contract position next year as they will not be able to recover membership numbers by the end of the year. COVID-19 has not only created a capacity issue as centre user numbers needs to be strictly controlled, but there will also be an impact on customer confidence. In terms of repaying FDC for the financial support, in the longer term it is envisaged that they will repay by delivering a vitally important leisure and fitness service to the residents of Fenland.

6.    Councillor Mason said that he understands that there is a legal limit to the financial support that FDC can offer to Freedom. Carol Pilson confirmed that FDC has a well-documented leisure contract with Freedom Leisure and although there is no specific limit on the financial support FDC can give them, Cabinet has a number of factors they can look at and a series of options to consider, for example if Freedom cannot continue to run the service, then who will. Their conclusion is that they do wish Freedom Leisure to continue running the leisure service but will have to reconsider this at every point that additional financial support is given. Carol Pilson added that we are in a good position in terms of how Freedom Leisure may financially repay FDC as when the pandemic began, we were only one year into a fifteen-year contract, so there is plenty of time to look at how the business performs over the longer term, which other Councils were not able to do.

7.    Councillor Yeulett observed that there are many demands on FDC funding and this will be scarce going forward, so we must look very carefully at areas of need. 

8.    Councillor Booth said at last year's meeting it was highlighted that there was a lot of comment on social media regarding showers not working properly or leaks in the main halls etc. Regarding the feedback collated this year within the report, can he assume that will include both compliments and complaints and is an action plan drawn up as a good quality service organisation to improve the delivery of the service? Matt Hunt agreed that all comments are collated and placed in a site-specific contract-wide business plan that Dan Palframan leads on. Most issues previously identified have been rectified through capital investment. There is work planned for the year ahead, with money allocated for roof replacements and repairs.

9.    Councillor Booth asked if Freedom are looking to be more proactive in acting upon social media comments and demonstrating that issues are being dealt with. Matt Hunt agreed that this is very much part of the ongoing development work around improving the service. Freedom is not a one-size fits all operation but works around the individual needs of each different community and that is one of their strengths. Dan Palframan agreed and said there had been a culture shift where formerly staff may have taken criticism personally and shied away from it but they now actively seek feedback and then act on it where it is relevant and justified, however there is caution over how much engagement they undertake on social media and there is a hierarchy of how certain issues are dealt with. Overall, he is proud of how customer complaints are dealt with.

10.Councillor Miscandlon thanked Carol Pilson for her well researched and comprehensive answer to the question regarding whether there was a legal limit to the amount of financial support that FDC could give to Freedom Leisure.

11.Councillor Purser asked how Freedom encourages people to use their facilities. Ivan Horsfall Turner said they are not commercial fitness operators and whilst they need to increase membership numbers, they work in consultation with local authorities specifically on local schemes, issues and demographics. Trying to encourage the inactive to be more active is exactly where we should be, with a whole range of concessionary schemes. Dan Palframan confirmed that Freedom accepts GP referrals and work with local clubs for example; and one of their biggest successes last year was Active Communities in terms of engaging harder to reach users, actively targeting certain areas rather than taking a blanket approach.

Councillor Mason thanked Ivan Horsfall Turner, Dan Palframan and Matt Hunt for their attendance at today’s meeting and for the information they had provided. 

(Ivan Horsefall Turner, Matt Hunt and Dan Palframan left the meeting)